Sorry if I'm not exactly shaking in my boots. The Phillies haven't exactly improved themselves anywhere else in their lineup. Raul Ibanez is still the starting left fielder. They lost their most patient hitter in Jayson Werth. Brad Lidge is still their closer and their bullepn isn't as deep as the Giants.
Back to their rotation though, all the Phillies pitchers are over 30-years old. Only Hamels is in his twenty's. Now look at the Giants rotation. Their four best pitchers, Lincecum/Cain/Bumgarner/Sanchez are all younger than 28-years old. So the Giants rotation is younger and has postseason experience. The core of the Giants rotation hasn't even hit their primes yet. So excuse me for not bowing down to the Phillies and proclaiming their rotation the best in baseball. They aren't.
And remember the Giants lineup, the same lineup that couldn't hit, beat Halladay, Hamels, Oswalt, and Lee five times in the postseason including two victories against Lee in the World Series.
So congrats Phillies on having the 2nd best rotation in baseball. Now if the Phillies trade for Evan Longoria or some sort of hitter, then I'll be worried about them. Now excuse me, I have a 2010 World Series Champions San Francisco Giants DVD to watch.
I am happy to know someone is thinking the same way as I am with Phillies having the 2nd best rotation. People keep saying the Phillies lost the NLCS because their batting did not show. I believe the batting was there, but the Giants pitching was just too superior. Now, I am just hoping Bary Zito gets his act together to make the Giants pitching even stronger.
ReplyDeleteThe Giants pitchers are young and promising, but there are a lot of unknowns with them. Madison Bumgarner looked strong in the 2nd part of last year, but is an unknown commodity over the long haul. He may end up being great, he may end up being a bust. I may be in the minority, but I do not buy "wildly effective" Jonathan Sanchez over the long haul. He'll crash and burn one day as a pitcher, and I will eagerly anticipate that day when it comes. You are confusing youth and potential with experience and already achieved greatness.
ReplyDeleteThe playoffs are a crapshoot and a small sample size. They prove nothing over the longterm in terms of who is better. Just because the Giants won, does not mean all their starting pitchers are better than all the Braves/Phillies/Rangers pitchers. Heck, the Phillies won the 2008 World Series, yet I am not sure there are many people that would argue the whole of the pitching staff of the 2008 Phillies is better than the whole of the pitching staff of the 2008 Tampa Bay Rays.
As Jayson Stark tweeted last night: The Phillies now have the MLB leader in wins above replacement (Lee), the NL Walks and Hits per Innings Pitched leader (Oswalt), the unanimous 2010 NL Cy Young (Halladay), and the best lefty ERA in the 2nd half of 2010 (Hamels). On top of that, Hamels is a young pitcher with experience coming off his best year ever as a starter.
I am not snubbing the Giants, they are a very good pitching staff with a lot of promise for the future. Lincecum is no doubt one of the best pitchers in baseball. But to say that as a whole they the Giants are the best in MLB today? Absolutely not. Do they have the potential to reach that apex in four years? Absolutely. The Giants pitchers, assuming they stay in San Fran long term can be what the Phillies are now. But are they today better than the Phillies pitchers today? No. No. And absolutely definitely not. This Phillies pitching staff is a pitching staff on paper comparable to Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz, not a youthful staff with potential.
You are confusing youth and potential with experience and already achieved greatness.
ReplyDeleteSo the Giants pitching staff didn't achieve and found greatness in the last postseason? Okay then.........
Wins above replacement in 2010 from Fangraphs
ReplyDeleteCliff Lee: 7.1
Roy Halladay: 6.6
Tim Lincecum: 6.6
Roy Oswalt: 4.7
Matt Cain: 4.0
Cole Hamels: 3.8
Jonathan Sanchez: 2.6
Madison Bumgarner: 2.0
Wins above replacement in 2010 from Baseball-reference
Roy Halladay: 6.9
Cliff Lee: 4.3
Cole Hamels: 4.7
Roy Oswalt: 5.1
Matt Cain: 3.9
Tim Lincecum: 3.5
Jonathan Sanchez: 3.4
Madison Bumgarner: 2.2
When understanding why people are all over this Phillies pitching staff, this is exactly why.
@ Keith: I was talking along the terms of individual greatness. 1 post-season should never be the measuring mark of an entire pitching staff. It's measuring a pitcher based off of 2-5 games.
ReplyDeleteIt will be an interesting 2011. I am a Giants Fan and am hoping the Giants repeat what they did. But I must admit, the Phillies rotation will be scary.
ReplyDeleteSo Lincecum striking out 14 batters in one game isn't individual greatness? Or Matt Cain not giving up a single run in the postseason isn't individual greatness? Madison Bumgarner coming out of the pen in game 6 of the NLCS and shutting down the Phillies isn't individual greatness? Okay then.........
ReplyDelete@Anon: I'm with you, the Phillies rotation will definitely be scary. I'm just not buying their the best rotation in baseball.
ReplyDelete@ Keith: Long-term sustained greatness. Not individual game. I am not arguing perfect games/no-hitters, I am putting out stats like a unanimous Cy Young, wins above replacement, and WHIP.
ReplyDeleteTalking long-term and sustained. While very good, the only Giants pitcher that can hold a candle to the Phillies Phantastic Phour is Lincecum.
No need to continue arguing. I'll take my team's pitching staff over yours and visa versa for you. I'll also take a world series ring over the no rings for Halladay, Lee, and Oswalt.
ReplyDeleteI think Keith's right about one thing: the Phillies lineup, as currently constructed, is not a Top 5 NL offense.
ReplyDelete@ Kris: I do agree with that. They are by no means as good as they once were, and they just lost 2010's most patient hitter in baseball (not hyperbole; Werth averaged more pitches per AB than any other player).
ReplyDeleteThat Howard contract is beyond horrible.